Anyone use El Toro this year?

Wondering if it actually does anything when you use it on a player that only has Bull Rush trait?

I’m also kind of skeptical about everyone’s belief that players will only use the pass rush moves that they have YES to in the traits. I used Division Dynasty Odafe Oweh when he first came out and watched him consistently through several games. NEVER saw him even attempt a bull rush move but he did use the rip move almost every down.

SlowAndSteady said:

Wondering if it actually does anything when you use it on a player that only has Bull Rush trait?

I’m also kind of skeptical about everyone’s belief that players will only use the pass rush moves that they have YES to in the traits. I used Division Dynasty Odafe Oweh when he first came out and watched him consistently through several games. NEVER saw him even attempt a bull rush move but he did use the rip move almost every down.

Interesting.  First i'd heard of these specific movesets being somewhat uhhh "off" or not as intended.  Very little would surprise me, it's EA logic after all, but i've always regarded those (Bull Rush = PMV, Swim & Spin = FMV) and to not stress about stats if the actual trait is NOT enabled.  Could the animations simply be off or wonky??

Regardless, i think the primary concern i have with El Toro is the fact that it will only trigger from MAX pass rush points.  I hate having to manage that stuff, so unless you can somehow guarantee that he'll be at max pass rush points, it could be difficult to activate El Toro, IMO.

Ability Description

Defenders with this ability will receive dominant bull rush wins when their pass rush points are full.

I tend to prefer either ETE (for the increased range / pressure bonus, not for the actual pass rush component, which is typically cancelled out by Secure Protector) or simply Under Pressure, although with more and more folks running Fearless, that becomes far less impactful.

peatrick said:

Interesting.  First i'd heard of these specific movesets being somewhat uhhh "off" or not as intended.  Very little would surprise me, it's EA logic after all, but i've always regarded those (Bull Rush = PMV, Swim & Spin = FMV) and to not stress about stats if the actual trait is NOT enabled.  Could the animations simply be off or wonky??

Regardless, i think the primary concern i have with El Toro is the fact that it will only trigger from MAX pass rush points.  I hate having to manage that stuff, so unless you can somehow guarantee that he'll be at max pass rush points, it could be difficult to activate El Toro, IMO.

Ability Description

Defenders with this ability will receive dominant bull rush wins when their pass rush points are full.

I tend to prefer either ETE (for the increased range / pressure bonus, not for the actual pass rush component, which is typically cancelled out by Secure Protector) or simply Under Pressure, although with more and more folks running Fearless, that becomes far less impactful.

Yeah I was thinking about trying Ed Too Tall Jones or Jared Allen since they only have Yes to the Bull Rush Trait. Then I would put Charge Up Relentless on them so they would rarely use pass rush points. I’ll probably just buy them and try it out myself. I highly doubt it works that great with everyone using Secure Pro and all of the other o-line abilities but at least I will know for sure.

SlowAndSteady said:

Yeah I was thinking about trying Ed Too Tall Jones or Jared Allen since they only have Yes to the Bull Rush Trait. Then I would put Charge Up Relentless on them so they would rarely use pass rush points. I’ll probably just buy them and try it out myself. I highly doubt it works that great with everyone using Secure Pro and all of the other o-line abilities but at least I will know for sure.

I have been using 0AP Relentless on Aaron Donald, only just recently finally benched him, although i was using it paired with DoN.  Might be better/easier/cheaper to test on A.D. -- i'd be curious what you come up with.

Heck, maybe i'll put AD back into the lineup, just to see.  I'm sure i can scrounge up 2AP for some basic testing with El Toro.

I started using it on merciless and he seems to get better pressure. I have D rally so that helps w max pts

its a luxury ability, but with All the 0 ap abilities now , it’s worth a shot

peatrick said:

I have been using 0AP Relentless on Aaron Donald, only just recently finally benched him, although i was using it paired with DoN.  Might be better/easier/cheaper to test on A.D. -- i'd be curious what you come up with.

Heck, maybe i'll put AD back into the lineup, just to see.  I'm sure i can scrounge up 2AP for some basic testing with El Toro.

I thought about trying it on AD a while back but never did it. He has Yes for all three pass rush moves so I don’t know if he would get as many animations. The goal with using El Toro is that the player only has Yes for Bull Rush trait so they should be only attempting Bull Rush moves. Then pair that with Relentless and you would expect to get a bunch of dominate Bull Rush moves because you never have to spend a pass rush point. I just don’t know if any of this stuff actually works the way you would hope.

I’m going to grab one of the Fan Appreciation guys and see what happens. I will report back.

Geega444 said:

I started using it on merciless and he seems to get better pressure. I have D rally so that helps w max pts

its a luxury ability, but with All the 0 ap abilities now , it’s worth a shot

Interesting, I have Mercilus and he has been pretty solid for me. Maybe I will try it on him and see if he gets even more pressure.

SlowAndSteady said:

I thought about trying it on AD a while back but never did it. He has Yes for all three pass rush moves so I don’t know if he would get as many animations. The goal with using El Toro is that the player only has Yes for Bull Rush trait so they should be only attempting Bull Rush moves. Then pair that with Relentless and you would expect to get a bunch of dominate Bull Rush moves because you never have to spend a pass rush point. I just don’t know if any of this stuff actually works the way you would hope.

I’m going to grab one of the Fan Appreciation guys and see what happens. I will report back.

Oof crap, I totally overlooked that. Obviously that won't work for testing, but I'm super curious to find out if defensive traits are broken, or if my understanding of the game has been wrong this whole time.

SlowAndSteady said:

Yeah I was thinking about trying Ed Too Tall Jones or Jared Allen since they only have Yes to the Bull Rush Trait. Then I would put Charge Up Relentless on them so they would rarely use pass rush points. I’ll probably just buy them and try it out myself. I highly doubt it works that great with everyone using Secure Pro and all of the other o-line abilities but at least I will know for sure.

I still think the best way to get pressure without sending the blitz is to use DoN on all, Defensive Rally on 1, and and charge up blitz X-factor. It's still not great, but you'll get a random shed and sack. Hopefully it happens in a good situation when needed, but you won't have to worry about your opponent having 10 seconds to throw. 

I'm still sending 6-7 every play out of 61 though. This is just the one way I found that got some form of pressure vs 5 secure pros

TheNickSix said:

I still think the best way to get pressure without sending the blitz is to use DoN on all, Defensive Rally on 1, and and charge up blitz X-factor. It's still not great, but you'll get a random shed and sack. Hopefully it happens in a good situation when needed, but you won't have to worry about your opponent having 10 seconds to throw. 

I'm still sending 6-7 every play out of 61 though. This is just the one way I found that got some form of pressure vs 5 secure pros

That’s basically the abilities I’ve been running. I think I have DoN on everybody except John Randle and he probably gets home as much as the rest still. I also have passive Colossus or UF on my line except for Aidan Hutch (Dual Threat & MS) and Wilfork who comes in with Blitz x-factor. Just wanting to see if there’s another combo that would be more dominant but it’s probably just wishful thinking.

SlowAndSteady said:

That’s basically the abilities I’ve been running. I think I have DoN on everybody except John Randle and he probably gets home as much as the rest still. I also have passive Colossus or UF on my line except for Aidan Hutch (Dual Threat & MS) and Wilfork who comes in with Blitz x-factor. Just wanting to see if there’s another combo that would be more dominant but it’s probably just wishful thinking.

pats defense, 61, cover 2, blitz all lbs, hard flat cbs. 

It's not the best defense, but people will struggle and you get great pressure until they max protect. It's also good vs the run most of the time.

TheNickSix said:

pats defense, 61, cover 2, blitz all lbs, hard flat cbs. 

It's not the best defense, but people will struggle and you get great pressure until they max protect. It's also good vs the run most of the time.

I’ve messed around with 6-1 before but I’m so used to the Base 46 playbook I always end up going back to it. Maybe I will give it another try. Do you manually set the hard flats?

SlowAndSteady said:

I’ve messed around with 6-1 before but I’m so used to the Base 46 playbook I always end up going back to it. Maybe I will give it another try. Do you manually set the hard flats?

I just call tampa 2 and shade down, I leave zone drops on default until my opponent gives me a reason to run a mable style defense

TheNickSix said:

I just call tampa 2 and shade down, I leave zone drops on default until my opponent gives me a reason to run a mable style defense

Sounds good man, thanks