I Hate That If I Play This Game at Night...

Im definitely lurking at night making the most toxic experience.

phatalerror said:

where RNG says my guys cannot have a sack that play

It's not like he threw where my user was (and, yes, I give up plenty of user-defended catches; not claiming perfection here). My defensive line got zero pressure. He had all day. A guy leaked out, and I couldn't get there in time.

As for recognizing formations and anticipating, I'm not getting most of these calls wrong. On the other hand, Film Study is pretty much worthless when you're revealing an RPO play for the eighth time, and the guy just keeps no-huddling and going where my user isn't, and converting his third third down in a row.

It's not about being good at the game at this point. 140 abilities or not, it's become about cheese, and needing at least slightly favorable RNG for anything good to happen if you aren't fighting cheese with cheese.

RNG is just an excuse to not get better though. If RNG was really the determining factor in wins and losses you would never see people have 10+ game win streaks. Also, with secure protectors on every oline everywhere you have to blitz to get pressure. That's not cheese, thats football. They block 5, I send 6, Recognize, make a plan, adjust, get better. OR cry oh no dda lost me another game again! That's like people who blame the refs for losing in real life. 

If you play well enough to get a lead then rng can't steal the game for you, it's up to you to take advantage of your opportunities. 

Also, if you are struggling vs rpos, youtube rpo defense. Rpo defense is SUPER easy. man coverage, shoot the gap, pressed hard flats, shoot the gap. Get your AI to cover the route, shoot the gap with your user. If you're porous enough to need film study to predict an RPO when the 3 best RPOs are always from bunch str, trios wk, and trips TE. if your AI isn't covering the bubble like you want it to then you pass commit

Nothing in this game is unstoppable

Sorry, I wasn't trying to turn this into an argument or be mean. But hopefully in cfb 25, and madden 25 or anything in life really. instead of whining about it just ask for help. This is a good place to find it.

Every competitive online game is like this. More people out of school and jobs by the evening. I guess don't play after 6pm.

TheNickSix said:

not advocating for the cheesers by any means, but what is the cheese you guys are struggling with specifically? I know this is an open forum and a great place to go to complain and vent your frustrations, but when you try to break the game down and understand it most of these "cheese plays" are stoppable. Instead of whining about it, what are we doing to understand and combat it and get better? 

I'm not trying to be mean, but this forum is also a great place to say "I'm getting shredded by a dude who only runs double posts, what do i do?" so that you can get better, stop struggling, and have more fun.

How do I consistently stop the 61 slide line blitz.  Seems my rb is useless and blocking a te isnt much different

TheNickSix said:

RNG is just an excuse to not get better though. If RNG was really the determining factor in wins and losses you would never see people have 10+ game win streaks. Also, with secure protectors on every oline everywhere you have to blitz to get pressure. That's not cheese, thats football. They block 5, I send 6, Recognize, make a plan, adjust, get better. OR cry oh no dda lost me another game again! That's like people who blame the refs for losing in real life. 

If you play well enough to get a lead then rng can't steal the game for you, it's up to you to take advantage of your opportunities. 

Also, if you are struggling vs rpos, youtube rpo defense. Rpo defense is SUPER easy. man coverage, shoot the gap, pressed hard flats, shoot the gap. Get your AI to cover the route, shoot the gap with your user. If you're porous enough to need film study to predict an RPO when the 3 best RPOs are always from bunch str, trios wk, and trips TE. if your AI isn't covering the bubble like you want it to then you pass commit

Nothing in this game is unstoppable

Sorry, I wasn't trying to turn this into an argument or be mean. But hopefully in cfb 25, and madden 25 or anything in life really. instead of whining about it just ask for help. This is a good place to find it.

I'm good enough to go about five wins in a row, and apparently not good enough to avoid losing five games in a row. If I'm losing, I'm losing primarily to the cheesy stuff already outlined. If a guy has one cheese play practiced, he's as good as dead. Two can be tougher, but winnable if the RNG isn't too heavily weighted against me. Once a player is executing a randomized sequence of four or five cheese plays, plays that complement each other due to demanding increasingly greater commitment on pre-play inputs, it does indeed become an altogether random experience of paper-rock-scissors, and throw in even mildly unfavorable RNG, and it's hard to win.

The people you speak of that go ten in a row are doing the same thing in response. Even if they start out honorable, they have no qualms about dishing out like for like. That's fine. But what I'm saying here is that I can stop these plays when I see them coming. However, to hold to minimal positive yardage any two of the potential cheese plays on pre-snap inputs alone requires giving up a substantial amount of field to other plays. Throw in some of the AI-confounding route combos on top of that, along with a little rollout... c'mon man, you know that this stuff is impossible to stop if you can't stack up enough wins on plays in sequence. And if you did, it was because you got the knockouts, you got the block sheds, you usered successfully against the opponent's primary read and got solid coverage from the AI guys. Which is the RNG component.

Thank you for being willing to help, so help this way: What are the preferred alignments and personnel along with pre-snap inputs to stop the safety-roasting post route combo and the rollout completion 15 yards out going the opposite way, along with the Vanguard stretch run?

Chiefsfan91 said:

How do I consistently stop the 61 slide line blitz.  Seems my rb is useless and blocking a te isnt much different

typically you have to max pro or quick throw, sometimes if you block RB and ID OLB on the opposite side that will do it, but it's such a compressed blitz it gets a lot of inconsistent a/b gap pressure that is really unpredictable. Best thing to do it spread sets (not 5 wide), Trips TE, and RPOs to try and get them out of it.

phatalerror said:

I'm good enough to go about five wins in a row, and apparently not good enough to avoid losing five games in a row. If I'm losing, I'm losing primarily to the cheesy stuff already outlined. If a guy has one cheese play practiced, he's as good as dead. Two can be tougher, but winnable if the RNG isn't too heavily weighted against me. Once a player is executing a randomized sequence of four or five cheese plays, plays that complement each other due to demanding increasingly greater commitment on pre-play inputs, it does indeed become an altogether random experience of paper-rock-scissors, and throw in even mildly unfavorable RNG, and it's hard to win.

The people you speak of that go ten in a row are doing the same thing in response. Even if they start out honorable, they have no qualms about dishing out like for like. That's fine. But what I'm saying here is that I can stop these plays when I see them coming. However, to hold to minimal positive yardage any two of the potential cheese plays on pre-snap inputs alone requires giving up a substantial amount of field to other plays. Throw in some of the AI-confounding route combos on top of that, along with a little rollout... c'mon man, you know that this stuff is impossible to stop if you can't stack up enough wins on plays in sequence. And if you did, it was because you got the knockouts, you got the block sheds, you usered successfully against the opponent's primary read and got solid coverage from the AI guys. Which is the RNG component.

Thank you for being willing to help, so help this way: What are the preferred alignments and personnel along with pre-snap inputs to stop the safety-roasting post route combo and the rollout completion 15 yards out going the opposite way, along with the Vanguard stretch run?

The safety roasting post route it usually due more to your CB sucking down on a corner or comeback route on the outside. To avoid that run cover 3 cloud, cover 6, or you can put the CB on the side the post is going towards in a deep half and he won't commit to the route that is pulling him down. I'm almost 100% base align, I use 61 and big nickel. You can also just blitz 6 guys and mug the center with your user, someone will come free unless they max pro and the post won't have time to develop.

To stop the combo of vanguard stretch and rollouts, to start you need Out my Way on as many players as possible, and if they do not get out my way they need reinforcement this helps with getting pancaked. The main goal of the user is to play the stretch run, depending on what formation you like to run all the run fits are different, I use 61 which allows my to stand between DT/DE on the strong side of the formation. Once it is snapped, and identified that it's a run I loop around the outside of the TE. Another thing you can do vs runners is stand 10 yards back with your user, the AI lineman can't identify you and block you if you are that far back and you can shoot gaps cleaner.  to simultaneously stop the rollouts with deep outs/corners you'll want to put curl flats on 0 and flats on 25-30. Pre-snap drop all your dline into coverage, you don't need them to rush since he is gonna take off as soon as he snaps it. Put both DE in curl flats, and as soon as they break the pocket push down on right stick to send your 0 yard curl flat and pass commit. This is what I do anytime I see someone come out in singleback formations I always prepare for rollouts.

The best players will have 5-6 playcalls they go to the entire game that will have a series of 1-2 adjustments. depending on the defense they face, the hashmark they sit on, and down/distance. It's what most people would call a scheme, I think where we really disagree is our definition of "cheese" When I think of cheese, specifically the rollout thing is cheesy and annoying and entirely unrealistic. Especially because my first thought was to blitz the slot cb and pass commit and they still just run right around it. Vanguards are cheesy because it's terribly unbalanced, if we had the equivalent with some sort of defensive vanguard then it'd be better. Film study and Omaha are cheesy. Angry runs is cheesy. In contrast I don't think cover 3 beater posts are cheesy, I don't think double corners or really any kind of hot routed route combo, rpo, or other play call is cheesy.

TheNickSix said:

The safety roasting post route it usually due more to your CB sucking down on a corner or comeback route on the outside. To avoid that run cover 3 cloud, cover 6, or you can put the CB on the side the post is going towards in a deep half and he won't commit to the route that is pulling him down. I'm almost 100% base align, I use 61 and big nickel. You can also just blitz 6 guys and mug the center with your user, someone will come free unless they max pro and the post won't have time to develop.

To stop the combo of vanguard stretch and rollouts, to start you need Out my Way on as many players as possible, and if they do not get out my way they need reinforcement this helps with getting pancaked. The main goal of the user is to play the stretch run, depending on what formation you like to run all the run fits are different, I use 61 which allows my to stand between DT/DE on the strong side of the formation. Once it is snapped, and identified that it's a run I loop around the outside of the TE. Another thing you can do vs runners is stand 10 yards back with your user, the AI lineman can't identify you and block you if you are that far back and you can shoot gaps cleaner.  to simultaneously stop the rollouts with deep outs/corners you'll want to put curl flats on 0 and flats on 25-30. Pre-snap drop all your dline into coverage, you don't need them to rush since he is gonna take off as soon as he snaps it. Put both DE in curl flats, and as soon as they break the pocket push down on right stick to send your 0 yard curl flat and pass commit. This is what I do anytime I see someone come out in singleback formations I always prepare for rollouts.

The best players will have 5-6 playcalls they go to the entire game that will have a series of 1-2 adjustments. depending on the defense they face, the hashmark they sit on, and down/distance. It's what most people would call a scheme, I think where we really disagree is our definition of "cheese" When I think of cheese, specifically the rollout thing is cheesy and annoying and entirely unrealistic. Especially because my first thought was to blitz the slot cb and pass commit and they still just run right around it. Vanguards are cheesy because it's terribly unbalanced, if we had the equivalent with some sort of defensive vanguard then it'd be better. Film study and Omaha are cheesy. Angry runs is cheesy. In contrast I don't think cover 3 beater posts are cheesy, I don't think double corners or really any kind of hot routed route combo, rpo, or other play call is cheesy.

First, thank you for your detailed answers. They covered a great deal of critical information, including how Madden’s AI reacts to situations according to inputs (including its incorrect reactions).

However, your answers also illustrate the point I’ve been making all along: Stopping any one or two plays isn’t the problem. Once a player is bouncing between disparate plays, it becomes increasingly challenging, and even improbable, that you can string together enough stops to hold an opponent to a short possession. You talked about sending six, about dropping the defensive line into coverage, about playing the stretch run with your user, and about redefining the coverage drops. You even suggested shooting the gaps from a distance that is invisible to the Madden offensive line AI, which is arguably a cheesy thing to do, for the same reason the secondary-breaking post route is cheesy.

I’ve been running Out My Way/Reinforcement on my linebackers, but occasionally get pancaked anyway (because RNG), but I don’t allow a lot of home run plays, which gives me more chances for a turnover. And when I do win despite everything we’ve discussed, it’s because I’m not getting mowed down at the line, and when I force long third and fourth downs, my defenders aren’t dropping or swatting picks that should go to the house.

Of course, the other side to this is that I have to score when I have the ball. Too bad that the only effective response to some of the terrible offensive line AI involves cheesy rollouts, RPO’s, stretch runs, and a fair shake at the RNG opportunities.

I’ll keep your response handy, as there are some tweaks I’ll make. You may have given me what I need to win one or two more games out of ten NPE’s.

Damn Europeans

I wish madden would release a cool down house rules style seasons mode. No more bunch offset double posts with with flies and audible. That would give another option to all of us

phatalerror said:

First, thank you for your detailed answers. They covered a great deal of critical information, including how Madden’s AI reacts to situations according to inputs (including its incorrect reactions).

However, your answers also illustrate the point I’ve been making all along: Stopping any one or two plays isn’t the problem. Once a player is bouncing between disparate plays, it becomes increasingly challenging, and even improbable, that you can string together enough stops to hold an opponent to a short possession. You talked about sending six, about dropping the defensive line into coverage, about playing the stretch run with your user, and about redefining the coverage drops. You even suggested shooting the gaps from a distance that is invisible to the Madden offensive line AI, which is arguably a cheesy thing to do, for the same reason the secondary-breaking post route is cheesy.

I’ve been running Out My Way/Reinforcement on my linebackers, but occasionally get pancaked anyway (because RNG), but I don’t allow a lot of home run plays, which gives me more chances for a turnover. And when I do win despite everything we’ve discussed, it’s because I’m not getting mowed down at the line, and when I force long third and fourth downs, my defenders aren’t dropping or swatting picks that should go to the house.

Of course, the other side to this is that I have to score when I have the ball. Too bad that the only effective response to some of the terrible offensive line AI involves cheesy rollouts, RPO’s, stretch runs, and a fair shake at the RNG opportunities.

I’ll keep your response handy, as there are some tweaks I’ll make. You may have given me what I need to win one or two more games out of ten NPE’s.

Ya but certain "cheeses" come from specific formations. Anytime you see singleback expect rollout cheeses, any kind of trips/trios expect rpo bubble, bunch offset expect double post, bunch str, expect RPO read bubble, gun offset, rpo peek zone bubble. Like i've been playing the entire year so for the most part I've seen it all and just might have more game reps. But before you pick your defense, see that formation and recognize the name and common tactics that come from it. Then make the proper adjustments to those formations. 

You'll get your stops, if you're putting this much effort into it then you will figure it out. End of year madden is much less RNG based because we have abilities giving us predictable guaranteed outcomes. NCAA however, lots of RNG and at any moment a receiver can catch a streak over 3 dudes for 40+ yards lol

Where should I send the waaaaaaambulance 'cause it sure sounds like you need one. Just get better yo!